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一手2/3/5的flop
[版面:德州扑克][首篇作者:Rijkaard] , 2016年01月12日18:41:17 ,839次阅读,34次回复
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Rijkaard
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发信人: Rijkaard (诚恳的), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 12 18:41:17 2016, 美东)

Hero just sat down at this very loose table. Didn't play with neither V in
the hand of question before.

A bit of history here:
1) The first hand I saw was V1 betting 500 into a 300+ pot on the river
against V2 and V2 finally tank folded after some table talks. We can feel V2
might be on tilt since.
2) next orbit, V1 open raises 25 from UTG+2, CO calls and BTN 3bet to 95.
Both call. Flop 335r. check to BTN who shoves ~400 and V1 snaps with 45o.
Turn is a 5 and river blank. BTN tables TT. So seems like V1 is a whale on
heater.

OK, into this hand. V1(3000) opens 25 from UTG, mp calls, V2(400) calls from
BTN, hero(450) calls from BB with AsJd.

V1's utg open probably means a strong hand and it's OK to fold AJo at BB if
we feel uncomfortable play oop the whole hand. Hero calls because we assume
V1 will bet on the flop/turn with his whole range so we have the relative
BTN most of the time.

Flop comes AcQs2s. Pot 98

Hero checks. V1 leads 20, mp folds. V2 raises to 60. What to do? 
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max92131
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发信人: max92131 (小球派), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 12 22:24:04 2016, 美东)

Tough situation. I'd call w caution. I'd let go if under high power cross-
fire.
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expert
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发信人: expert (thinkpadfans -> applefans), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jan 13 14:42:59 2016, 美东)

Easy fold

[在  Rijkaard (诚恳的) 的大作中提到:]
:Hero just sat down at this very loose table. Didn't play with neither
V in
:the hand of question before.
:...........

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Rijkaard
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发信人: Rijkaard (诚恳的), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jan 13 14:59:42 2016, 美东)

你怎么看两个V的range?

【 在 max92131 (小球派) 的大作中提到: 】
: Tough situation. I'd call w caution. I'd let go if under high power cross-
: fire.



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Rijkaard
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发信人: Rijkaard (诚恳的), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jan 13 15:00:20 2016, 美东)

fold的理由是什么?

【 在 expert (thinkpadfans -> applefans) 的大作中提到: 】
: Easy fold
: [在  Rijkaard (诚恳的) 的大作中提到:]
: :Hero just sat down at this very loose table. Didn't play with neither
: V in
: :the hand of question before.
: :...........



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Rijkaard
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发信人: Rijkaard (诚恳的), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jan 13 15:02:42 2016, 美东)

有考虑raise的盆友吗?

【 在 expert (thinkpadfans -> applefans) 的大作中提到: 】
: Easy fold
: [在  Rijkaard (诚恳的) 的大作中提到:]
: :Hero just sat down at this very loose table. Didn't play with neither
: V in
: :the hand of question before.
: :...........



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Flared
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发信人: Flared (Flared), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jan 13 15:25:34 2016, 美东)

throw it away
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max92131
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发信人: max92131 (小球派), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jan 13 21:06:01 2016, 美东)

Both may have wide ranges. 

On flop, V1 leads 20, maybe flopped air.  V2 wants to single-out V1, so re-
raise.

They may give LZ some credits as you are new here.  Ideally V1 fold or just
call. LZ may lead on turn to find out, or even take it down.

If the hand escalates, TPTK does not worth it.  Let it go and wait for
another, better opportunity.  


【 在 Rijkaard (诚恳的) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你怎么看两个V的range?



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fryking
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发信人: fryking (赤道企鹅), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jan 14 11:18:08 2016, 美东)

yes, raise to $150, blind shove on the turn. or, if you really get creative,
shove right here to play like a donk flush draw. with 80BB effective short
stack, not much room to overthink.

this hand s not about getting V1, but V2.

1) if you choose to play AJo trouble hand OOP, this is one of the top x%
flops you can hit. we don't care how we got here (problematic OOP hands),
but since we already got here, we have to play it to the max;

2) hard to put V2 on a better Ax or better hand here, the history/line/board
don't look right. he's more concerned about V1 (not much about you). V1's
range is so wide and flop c-cet so small, V2 is afraid of cheap "suck outs"
coming if he flats here, which could make him overplay trash AT or worse
hands;

3) V1 flops a weak piece. without you, he's going to easily call $60 most of
time to at least see a turn. it's ok to flat here too but OOP with an
awkward stack size on the turn, and against 2 players? it will take more
hand reading on the turn, if you prefer a safer play.

【 在 Rijkaard (诚恳的) 的大作中提到: 】
: 有考虑raise的盆友吗?



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qing78
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发信人: qing78 (qing78), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jan 14 12:27:53 2016, 美东)

wow, look at who is coming.

【 在 fryking (赤道企鹅) 的大作中提到: 】
: yes, raise to $150, blind shove on the turn. or, if you really get
creative,
:  shove right here to play like a donk flush draw. with 80BB effective
short
: stack, not much room to overthink.
: this hand s not about getting V1, but V2.
: 1) if you choose to play AJo trouble hand OOP, this is one of the top x%
: flops you can hit. we don't care how we got here (problematic OOP hands),
: but since we already got here, we have to play it to the max;
: 2) hard to put V2 on a better Ax or better hand here, the history/line/
board
:  don't look right. he's more concerned about V1 (not much about you). V1's
: range is so wide and flop c-cet so small, V2 is afraid of cheap "suck outs
"
: ...................



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OOGOD
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发信人: OOGOD (OMG), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jan 14 12:34:27 2016, 美东)

WOW!!!!
【 在 fryking (赤道企鹅) 的大作中提到: 】
: yes, raise to $150, blind shove on the turn. or, if you really get
creative,
:  shove right here to play like a donk flush draw. with 80BB effective
short
: stack, not much room to overthink.
: this hand s not about getting V1, but V2.
: 1) if you choose to play AJo trouble hand OOP, this is one of the top x%
: flops you can hit. we don't care how we got here (problematic OOP hands),
: but since we already got here, we have to play it to the max;
: 2) hard to put V2 on a better Ax or better hand here, the history/line/
board
:  don't look right. he's more concerned about V1 (not much about you). V1's
: range is so wide and flop c-cet so small, V2 is afraid of cheap "suck outs
"
: ...................



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hillgong
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发信人: hillgong (King GG), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jan 14 13:42:02 2016, 美东)

V1 probably have a pocker pair most of time since the bet was really small
on a draw heavy board, he probably is bad but even most bad players would
bet big with a strong holding here as well, so I think we are ahead of V1's
holding here almost always.
V2 could have Ax or combo draw here very often and raise for information. He
could certainly have 22 in his range and play this way but unlikely with AA
, QQ, or even AK AQ. We are way ahead of Ax and favor against any draws.
Considering we are OOP, I would argue that 3bet is the best option. Now,
whether to shove or not could be another discussion depends on how tricky/
loose V1 can get...

【 在 Rijkaard (诚恳的) 的大作中提到: 】
: Hero just sat down at this very loose table. Didn't play with neither V in
: the hand of question before.
: A bit of history here:
: 1) The first hand I saw was V1 betting 500 into a 300+ pot on the river
: against V2 and V2 finally tank folded after some table talks. We can feel
V2
:  might be on tilt since.
: 2) next orbit, V1 open raises 25 from UTG+2, CO calls and BTN 3bet to 95.
: Both call. Flop 335r. check to BTN who shoves ~400 and V1 snaps with 45o.
: Turn is a 5 and river blank. BTN tables TT. So seems like V1 is a whale on
: heater.
: ...................



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Windstormm
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发信人: Windstormm (赌棍), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jan 14 13:47:17 2016, 美东)

欢迎老版主强力回归!



【 在 fryking (赤道企鹅) 的大作中提到: 】
: yes, raise to $150, blind shove on the turn. or, if you really get
creative,
:  shove right here to play like a donk flush draw. with 80BB effective
short
: stack, not much room to overthink.
: this hand s not about getting V1, but V2.
: 1) if you choose to play AJo trouble hand OOP, this is one of the top x%
: flops you can hit. we don't care how we got here (problematic OOP hands),
: but since we already got here, we have to play it to the max;
: 2) hard to put V2 on a better Ax or better hand here, the history/line/
board
:  don't look right. he's more concerned about V1 (not much about you). V1's
: range is so wide and flop c-cet so small, V2 is afraid of cheap "suck outs
"
: ...................




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pearl0
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发信人: pearl0 (Pearl), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jan 14 16:08:05 2016, 美东)

鞭炮齐鸣

【 在 Windstormm (赌棍) 的大作中提到: 】
: 欢迎老版主强力回归!
: creative,
: short
: board
:

★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.6
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pearl0
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发信人: pearl0 (Pearl), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jan 14 16:21:28 2016, 美东)

loose table, v1 cbet 20 into 98, giving his range, he could have set, two
pairs, top pair, pocket pair, drawing hands. v2 could over play his top pair
, middle pair, or tilt raise. so, hard to narrow down though.  

need see turn action to narrow down.   but call on flop is too weak unless
you were trapping, but you may not get pay if Vs didn't complete their hands
.  I would raise to see the action and ready to go all in if its really
loose table.


【 在 Rijkaard (诚恳的) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你怎么看两个V的range?



★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.6
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Rijkaard
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发信人: Rijkaard (诚恳的), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jan 14 17:10:00 2016, 美东)

老版主和hillgong同学基本说出了我的想法,但我权衡一分多钟还是采用了max92131同
学的思路,最后结果呢还是遵循了expert和Flared同学的建议

我来说说我的想法:

V1's tiny lead makes me think he flops an underpair and is looking for info
or he flops a FD and makes a blocking bet. V2's small raise looks more
suspicious. Virtually V2's value hand is A2/22/Q2(AK/AQ he would 3bet pre
I think) only and he should have a lot of Qx, weak A, FD and air in his
range.

Against V2's range I am ahead. At this point there is no way I fold my TPGK
and backdoor NFD. So flat or 3b or jam? Shove is too strong. It folds out
almost everything we beat(maybe KJ/KTss call) and only gets called by better.

3bet is awkward too because 120-150 gives V2 good odds to draw and 200 is
equivalent to a jam.

So I chose to flat 60 as it still appears strong and there is almost no bad
card for me on the turn except a Q.

As soon as I put my 60 in, V1 announces 3bet to 160 and V2 jam. I throw away
my cards within a sec and V1 snaps with AQ. V2 has Q2. Turn Js and river
blank.

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Rijkaard
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发信人: Rijkaard (诚恳的), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jan 14 17:19:57 2016, 美东)

on the flop, against V1, we are WA/WB so 3bet flop can achieve little if he
still has some brain cells working. We do not want to raise for information
as V2 can flat our raise with his whole flop range and we dont get any extra
information.

we called pre, c/c a raise on the flop. that's somehow strong and we are
less likely to be bluffed later.
 

【 在 pearl0 (Pearl) 的大作中提到: 】
: loose table, v1 cbet 20 into 98, giving his range, he could have set, two
: pairs, top pair, pocket pair, drawing hands. v2 could over play his top
pair
: , middle pair, or tilt raise. so, hard to narrow down though.  
: need see turn action to narrow down.   but call on flop is too weak unless
: you were trapping, but you may not get pay if Vs didn't complete their
hands
: .  I would raise to see the action and ready to go all in if its really
: loose table.
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.6



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Rijkaard
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发信人: Rijkaard (诚恳的), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jan 14 17:24:04 2016, 美东)

然后安立刻要求换桌 后面座一个老有牌的maniac没法打

这手牌的教训还是fryking说的 oop打trouble hand
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fryking
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发信人: fryking (赤道企鹅), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jan 14 17:53:43 2016, 美东)

make sense.

given V1's wildness, i should have seen this $20 flop weak c-bet as more
suspicious, and would expect he leads out more for weaker hands.

one thing good by flatting $60 is to give V1 a second chance to show his
real strength, very few ppl with his style would be sick enough to further
slow play/disguise his monster hands.

AJo OOP is a very tough hand to play, unless the table is full of passive
fish. it's a hand hard to commit with but has ok value at the same time.

well, V1 seems like a decent LAG though, 45o hand is debatable, but not too
bad.

【 在 Rijkaard (诚恳的) 的大作中提到: 】
: 老版主和hillgong同学基本说出了我的想法,但我权衡一分多钟还是采用了max92131同
: 学的思路,最后结果呢还是遵循了expert和Flared同学的建议
: 我来说说我的想法:
: V1's tiny lead makes me think he flops an underpair and is looking for
info
: or he flops a FD and makes a blocking bet. V2's small raise looks more
: suspicious. Virtually V2's value hand is A2/22/Q2(AK/AQ he would 3bet
pre
: I think) only and he should have a lot of Qx, weak A, FD and air in his
: range.
: Against V2's range I am ahead. At this point there is no way I fold my
TPGK
: and backdoor NFD. So flat or 3b or jam? Shove is too strong. It folds out
: ...................



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发信人: fryking (赤道企鹅), 信区: TexasHoldem
标  题: Re: 一手2/3/5的flop
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jan 14 17:56:34 2016, 美东)

luckily V1 acts loud here, otherwise turn J would be a disaster, lol.

【 在 Rijkaard (诚恳的) 的大作中提到: 】
: on the flop, against V1, we are WA/WB so 3bet flop can achieve little if
he
: still has some brain cells working. We do not want to raise for
information
: as V2 can flat our raise with his whole flop range and we dont get any
extra
:  information.
: we called pre, c/c a raise on the flop. that's somehow strong and we are
: less likely to be bluffed later.
:  
: pair
: hands



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